Do the Holy Scriptures identify JESUS the Christ as MICHAEL the Archangel?

[Watchman6693]

Do the Holy Scriptures identify JESUS the Christ as MICHAEL the Archangel?

There are certain persons and organizations who believe and teach that JESUS the Christ is MICHAEL the Archangel.

This question is not a new one however, it has been my experience that the supporters of this teaching(JESUS is MICHAEL) provide little or no SCRIPTURAL evidence of (JESUS is MICHAEL) being a BIBLICAL fact.


I am of the opinion that all SCRIPTURE is given by the inspiration of Jehovah and should be the final authority in all doctrinal issues. I also believe that Jehovah gives us a very clear RECORD of who and what JESUS is in the Holy Scriptures.

Furthermore I challenge any persons who advocate this teaching (JESUS is MICHAEL) to prove it by the BIBLE.

* while personal opinion and commentary based upon inferences and reasoning involving speculation and circumstantial evidence is good for discussion, we are admonished to build our lives and doctrine upon the solid foundation of God's Word.

So again I ask the question............


Do the Holy Scriptures identify JESUS the Christ as MICHAEL the Archangel?

[firstpeterfoureight]

Hello Tony

A similar question was posed here:-
http://pathways-online.com/yabbse/index.php?board=6;action=display;threadid=405;start=0

You may care to review this to see  who has previously shared their thoughts on this subject....

Perhaps some of our newer family members may also have some thoughts to share with us ....

Much love   :-%

Peter    8-}

[Watchman6693]

Hi Peter,
 
Reviewing that thread proves my point exactly. There is little or no SCRIPTURAL evidence that ........JESUS the Christ is MICHAEL the Archangel.


So I consulted ........................

The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon

 
Original Word     micael

 Word Origin       of Hebrew origin
 
Transliterated Word  Michael

Phonetic Spelling    mikh-ah-ale'      

 Parts of Speech    Noun Masculine  
 
 Definition

Michael = "who is like God"
the first of the chief princes or archangels who is supposed to be the guardian angel of the Israelites
 
   
* The word  Michael is used in the (New Testament) of the NAS  2 times.
Once in the book of Jude and once in the Revelation --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Greek Word: Micahvl
Transliterated Word: Michael

Jude 1:9    But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, "The Lord rebuke you."  



Re 12:7    And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. And the dragon and his angels waged war,
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
In conclusion, the English word Michael is used twice in the New testament of the Bible to refer to the Archangel. There is no mention or association of Jesus the Christ in either of these verses.

This is very interesting considering the fact that the New testament or the New Covenant is written about JESUS , and contains the revelation of who he is , his birth, his death, his ressurection, his ascention , his second coming, etc. all this information about Jesus Christ but no clear implication  identifying (JESUS the Christ as MICHAEL the Archangel) .

Which brings me back to the question


Do the Holy Scriptures identify JESUS the Christ as MICHAEL the Archangel?

[JaneSmith]

"Do the Holy Scriptures identify JESUS the Christ as MICHAEL the Archangel? "


No.



Jane

[Watchman6693]

The NAS Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon

English name Michael

Original Word lakym

 
Transliterated Word   Miyka'el

Phonetic Spelling me-kaw-ale'

Parts of Speech Proper Name Masculine
     
 
 
Definition

Michael = "who is like God"
one of, the chief, or the first archangel who is described as the one who stands in time of conflict for the children of Israel
 


Hebrew Word: Lakym
Transliterated Word: Miyka'el
Book to Display: Daniel
Verse Count: 3

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Da 10:13    "But the prince of the kingdom of Persia was withstanding me for twenty-one days; then behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left there with the kings of Persia.  

Da 10:21    "However, I will tell you what is inscribed in the writing of truth. Yet there is no one who stands firmly with me against these forces except Michael your prince.  

Da 12:1    "Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued.  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The Name Michael as it refers to one of the chief princes  is used three (3) times in the old testament.

note that Michael is referred to as one of the chief princes, your prince, and the great prince.


At no time is he called Jesus or Christ or Saviour or Lord.


Do the Holy Scriptures identify JESUS the Christ as MICHAEL the Archangel?

[greengopete]

Do the Holy Scriptures identify JESUS the Christ as MICHAEL the Archangel?

There are certain persons and organizations who believe and teach that JESUS the Christ is MICHAEL the Archangel.

This question is not a new one however, it has been my experience that the supporters of this teaching(JESUS is MICHAEL) provide little or no SCRIPTURAL evidence of (JESUS is MICHAEL) being a BIBLICAL fact.


I am of the opinion that all SCRIPTURE is given by the inspiration of Jehovah and should be the final authority in all doctrinal issues. I also believe that Jehovah gives us a very clear RECORD of who and what JESUS is in the Holy Scriptures.

Furthermore I challenge any persons who advocate this teaching (JESUS is MICHAEL) to prove it by the BIBLE.

* while personal opinion and commentary based upon inferences and reasoning involving speculation and circumstantial evidence is good for discussion, we are admonished to build our lives and doctrine upon the solid foundation of God's Word.

So again I ask the question............


Do the Holy Scriptures identify JESUS the Christ as MICHAEL the Archangel?

       pete,<<
  Hello Tony, I was just reading your post and after some serious considerations, I have desided to pass on some wisdom I have found to be very helpfull in trying to understand the scriptures of the Holy Bible, (any Bible).
 
 First, you must have a measure of UNDERSTANDING. Now the way one obtains understanding is through God's Holy Spirit. We all have a differant ammount of this understanding, depending on your standing with the Holy Father.
 
  According to Jesus, the son of God, He praised the Father for writing the scriptures so that only certain people could understand  the meaning of what God has had written. ( see Mt. 11:25).
 
  I'm sure God put what he felt was the right amount of information in the scriptures so that anyone having his approvial, could understand what he ment.

  Some of the other mis-understandings some people have of the scriptures are : God and Jesus are the same, Jehovah is a triune god, everbody is either going to Heaven or Hell, the sole is emortial.

  Since Jehovah controlles understanding, you may have better luck  dirrecting these questions to him instead of the board since you seem to have read all that God has written about the matter, and you don't seem to understand in light of what is written.

  I don't mean to disturbe  you in any way, but try this out and see what happens.
Just my openion
 
       Peace,
       Pete


 
 

[nitahunt]

Some of the other mis-understandings some people have of the scriptures are : God and Jesus are the same, Jehovah is a triune god, everbody is either going to Heaven or Hell, the sole is emortial.

Hello Pete,

Since this section of the forum is for handling "real" objections, why don't you just give your scriptural proofs for your beliefs.

As far as having the Holy Spirit, only those that are saved receive the Holy Spirit, it is a gift of God.  If you are not saved, you do not have the Holy Spirit.  So it would be very hard for you to understand what the bible says about who Christ is?  That is the whole purpose of the Bible, for God to reveal Himself to us.  God is a Spirit and he only reveals himself to those that have the Spirit.  The Natural/Flesh mind can never no the true God.

The King James Version (Authorized)    
 
John 3:1 - 21 Study This Chapter
 
There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.  Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?  Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.  The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.  Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.  For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Love in Christ

[Timothy]

Greetings Tony,

When I read your posts and saw that you said the following, I wonder what might have caused you to overlook the mention/reference to Michael in Daniel... a follow-up addition to the post seems to correct yourself, but I wanted to point out that "Michael" is mentioned more than twice, as you first indicated.

The word  Michael is used in the NAS  2 times.
Once in the book of Jude and once in the Revelation

Having said that I will probably shock not a few on this forum by admitting that by Witnesses teaching that Jesus is, in fact, Michael, we probably have erred. I say "probably," because I do not claim to be an expert on this topic.

I say this because to teach that Jesus is Michael leaves some challenging questions which I don't think have been addressed by the Society nor by Witnesses. I know that I personally can't come up with a satisfactory answer to the perplexities of the doctrine.

First, we know that Jesus, having served as the Christ to redeem mankind, was then essentially handed the rulership of the heavens and earth, to begin ruling when his Father, Jehovah deemed the appropriate time. That Jesus had immense power preceding his being born as a human is a pale glimmer to his being absolutely glorified following his faithfulness unto death and subsequent being raised to life once more by Jehovah. His power is all the more limitless, second only to that of Jehovah.

Now, given that realization, let's take it to the next step of the discussion.

And war broke out in heaven: Mi´cha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.--Revelation 12:7-9 (NWT)

This is our first problem.

If Jesus' power is now second only to that of Jehovah, then how much of a war would it really be if Jesus was actually Michael? How much of a battle would it be? While we can affirm that Satan and his angels do not prevail in this cataclysmic war in heaven, does that in and of itself give us enough to infer that because "Michael and his angels" win, that "Michael" is Jesus?

Tying in the passage from Daniel, namely the previously mentioned reference to Michael as "one of the foremost princes," we know two more facts: one, that the angels themselves engaged in opposing conflicts with other angels. Notice how Daniel recorded what the angel told him:

13 But the prince of the royal realm of Persia was standing in opposition to me for twenty-one days, and, look! Mi´cha·el, one of the foremost princes, came to help me; and I, for my part, remained there beside the kings of Persia. --Daniel 10:13 (NWT)

"The prince of the royal realm of Persia" cannot be a mere reference to a human prince, for what human can be said to be able to stand "in opposition" for even 21 days? Even Paul mentioned the unseen influence of various demonic princes, did he not, in his letter to the Ephesians, to whom he wrote the following:

Put on the complete suit of armor from God that YOU may be able to stand firm against the machinations of the Devil; 12 because we have a wrestling, not against blood and flesh, but against the governments, against the authorities, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places.--Ephesians 6:11-12 (NWT)

A more succinct rendering follows:

For we are not fighting against people made of flesh and blood, but against the evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against those mighty powers of darkness who rule this world, and against wicked spirits in the heavenly realms.--Ephesians 6:12 (NLT)

Paul's statement supports the understanding that while we have our "flesh and blood" rulers, those rulers are watched over and essentially controlled by the "evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world." It follows, then, that the "prince of the royal realm of Persia" that was said to be "standing in opposition" to this angel sent to deliver a message to Daniel was none other than one of those demonic "evil" rulers that Paul mentions.

On that occasion, another angel, "one of the foremost princes" named Michael, came to the aid of that messenger. If there was a valid reason to say that Michael and Jesus are one and the same, would not Daniel have written that "Michael, the foremost prince (not one of those princes)" came to help this messenger?

In fact, when we reference Strong's 08269, we find that the original word is sar, which translates into "captain, commander, prince, ruler."

Thus, Michael is one of the foremost "captains," "commanders," "princes," or "rulers" among the angelic ranks. Much like our human armies have admirals, generals, and captains as commanders of our armies (and since war is of demonic origin, there's no surprise that our carnal warfare emulates and even may mirror demonic familiarity with ranks!), the angels have rank and station.

Which brings me back to my earlier point about Jesus' absolute power and glory now. Could Satan and his angels really war against Jesus? It certainly wouldn't amount to any sort of battle. We're talking about the glorified Jesus, whose power is second only to Jehovah. Through Jesus, all of Creation came into being, so of what great feat would throwing Satan and his cohorts to the earth be for a fully empowered Jesus?

Thus, we're left with the conclusion that Jesus himself will not personally engage in this war in heaven--but rather, will give the command, which will then be carried out by the angels which will have been loyal through the millennia. These angels will then engage in a war in heaven (this war is likely already underway, but has yet to reach a climactic point when Satan and his demons are afterwards cast to the earth), fighting against fellow angels in an unimaginable battle. Among those loyal angels will be those angelic captains, or chiefs, commanders or princes, leading the war of righteousness to its final, decisive end. And among those captains will be Michael, who obviously is a staunch supporter of Jehovah's arrangement to the extent of having as his own name the banner of "Who is like God?"-- a very challenge in itself to anyone who would dare usurp Jehovah's sovereignty.

And yet we can identify Michael, in spite of his high station among angels, as one who leaves judgment to Jehovah, as recorded for us in Jude the following:

9 But when Mi´cha·el the archangel had a difference with the Devil and was disputing about Moses’ body, he did not dare to bring a judgment against him in abusive terms, but said: “May Jehovah rebuke you.” --Jude 9 (NWT)

Clearly, Michael is an angel to be reckoned with, which makes it no wonder that he is looking forward to carrying out the work of casting the Devil and his followers from heaven.

But is he Jesus? Do the scriptures support the view that Jesus and Michael are one and the same?

No.

Humbly,
Timothy

[JaneSmith]

"Do the Holy Scriptures identify JESUS the Christ as MICHAEL the Archangel? "


No.



Jane

I answered "No" to the question posed because there is no direct or plain statement in the Bible identifing Michael as the Christ.

If I were to be asked that question at the door I would today have to answer, "No, there is no scripture which directly identifies Michael as the Christ. But there is evidence in the Bible that appears to strongly support the belief that Michael is the Christ"

What evidence?  In my opinion, the actions and events attributed to Michael's "standing up" in Daniel 12 and to his warring with Satan in Revelation 12 are those which can easily be attributed to the Christ.  

But it is true there is no clear statement in the Bible that identifies Michael as the Christ. Time holds the answers to all unanswered questions.



Jane

[JaneSmith]

Timothy,

You said, "Which brings me back to my earlier point about Jesus' absolute power and glory now. Could Satan and his angels really war against Jesus? It certainly wouldn't amount to any sort of battle. We're talking about the glorified Jesus, whose power is second only to Jehovah. Through Jesus, all of Creation came into being, so of what great feat would throwing Satan and his cohorts to the earth be for a fully empowered Jesus?"
*************************************************

Yet, doesn't Revelation 19 speak of the nations "warring" with the Christ?  Certainly he could also be spoken of as warring with angels, it would seem so to me anyway.

I think of it as similar to a boxing match between two unequal opponents.  Though one will surely win over the other, the match is still called a match.



Jane